Saturday, November 3, 2007

Programs Don't Work, Stick With The Word

The Way of the Master Radio recently aired a piece on Bill Hybels admission that the programs his church has developed and spread to countless numbers of churches across the nation don't work.

What's the solution according to Bill Hybels? Stick with the Word? No, come up with other man made programs.

Parts 1,2, and 3





18 comments:

jm.rocks.you said...

They took the videos out of youtube.:(

Philip said...

Seems to still be working for me

J & J Bible Ministry, Lancaster, Pennsylvania said...

Thanks for posting these Philip!

Blessings.

Anonymous said...

Anyone else notice the irony of this post blasting a minister for not depending on the word following the post about tricking people into reading the truth?

Philip@ReformedVoices said...

So you would say a Gospel tract that looks like currency is the same as or similar to a Church that uses marketing programs catered to the desires of non-Christians for Church growth?

Anyone else agree or disagree with Anonymous?

Garrett said...

I definitely sympathize with what "anonymous" said. The money tracts have always seemed a bit shady to me, although that is just my personal conviction. I know of several good men who use them in their own evangelism endeavors, and they do seem to pique people's interest, if nothing else.

Anonymous said...

Yes, the money tracs are a good way to get the ungodlys attention and then on the back side they have a good gospel presentation. I bet you would be the kind of christian while I am preaching my heart out to some students on a collage campus or on a street corner you would be the one to either tell me I am doing it all wrong or at least think that I am crazy. Why? You anrn't happy unless you are doing it and I don't see many of you doing it only being critical of those who are doing it. How about joining hands with one of us christians who is trying to do something and helping out.

Anonymous said...

Some of you guys need to think before you put this stuff on this blog. Of course its a good idea to use fake money to get the attention of the ungodly. Thats what they worship. Please come to one of the campuses that I preach at and heckle me and try to tell me that I am doing it all wrong so I have something to illustrate how ignorant some christians can be. At least try to help those who have the desire to reach out to the lost with the message of the gospel. If you cannot bring your self to witness or preach on a corner of the street get your check book out and support those who do.

Garrett said...

Philip,

I apologize for stirring things up on your site; that wasn't my intent. I was simply expressing my personal conviction. Perhaps some of your anonymous commenters need to re-read Rom. 14 on how to treat those brothers that disagree with them on matters of conscience...

Just as an FYI, here are some tracts that my church uses for evangelism, especially on college campuses:

http://www.lakeroadchapel.org/LR_ReadTracts.htm

Do I necessarily think these are "better" than the others? No. But I feel like I can use these with a clear conscience, because they openly present the gospel, and don't do it under the guise of something else. To me, anything that doesn't do that violates 2 Cor. 4:2. But no matter what, "whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice. Yes, and I will rejoice."

Garrett said...

Philip,

I just posted another comment on this, but looking back, it will probably just stir up more strife. If you feel it will as well, please just delete it. It's so hard to communicate with people this way, and I fear that some of the things I said will come across the wrong way. I would rather let others have the last word, then cause more feelings to be hurt.

But this is your site, so whatever you think is best.

Take care,

gh

Philip@ReformedVoices said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Garrett said...

Philip,

When I look at the NT to see how the Gospel was presented by, say, the Apostle Paul, I just don't see that kind of mentality. He knew the Gospel was going to be perceived as nothing but foolishness by the lost man, and yet he refused to alter the message in order to make it more palatable.

And this attitude seems to extend beyond just the content of the message, to the way the message itself was actually presented. Paul says he refused to use persuasive words of wisdom in order to preach the message lest the Gospel be emptied of it's power. In other words, Paul refused to cater to the lost man's desire for oratorical prowess in the presentation of the truth. He refused to cater to the lost man's desires at all; he simply preached the message. I guess I feel like we should do the same. Any attempts to get the lost man's attention by wrapping the message up in extra-biblical trappings seems off base to me. It also seems to violate 2 Cor. 4:1ff, as I stated before.

Biblically speaking, the ends do NOT justify the means, and we need to be careful that not only our message, but also the WAY IN WHICH we deliver our message is according to biblical principles. We can be sure that God will bless our efforts as we seek to conform to His will with regards to the sharing of the truth.

Anyway, that's where I'm coming from, though I am open to correction in this area if I am off. Thanks for the interaction.

gh

Philip@ReformedVoices said...

(My weird analogy may have been interpreted wrong so I removed it)

I agree that the ends do not justify the means and that the message must not be stripped of its barbs.

I'm not sure if there is a definitive line that I know in regards to this. The following is just me thinking out loud and not directred at anyone.

It could be argued that any tract is not biblical because that was never a method of delivering the Gospel used by the Apostles. Some say tracts are for cowards.

What about Christian groups doing humanitarian and relief work. A big motivator for them is not in the work itself but in being able to share Christ with the lost in using the opportunity. Is that deceptive?

Did early churches have big crosses on the front and send out newsletters and daily bible verses?

Mason said...

Brothers,

I agree with Garrett. He has pointed out truths from Scripture, let me argue historically. Read the biographies of men such as George Whitefield, Howell Harris, Martyn Lloyd-Jones, or the Wesleys. Every page of their lives condemned the philosophy behind these "money" tracts, which is pragmatism. The rejected all methodology save sacrificial love, intercessory prayer, and the Spirit-anointed preaching of God's word. Read and listen to men such as Paul Washer and Charles Leiter - they reject this sort of method entirely.

Paul Washer, in a recent interview, gave his philosophy of evangelism. He said we must preach the truth without any gimmicks or drawing cards. The interviewer asked him if this "worked". He replied, "I don't care if it 'works,' it's biblical."

Brothers, we are not pragmatists - we are preachers. Our message and intentions are to be clear from beginning to end. These tracts undercut the reality that Christ is His own drawing card.

I plead with you to reject these tracts. Friends, please email me at masonvann@gmail.com with your address and I will happily send you an assortment of tracts free of charge. I had help from the Lord handing these out at Truman State University a couple of days ago.

Philip@ReformedVoices said...

Thanks for the responses guys, I will be thinking this over and reconsidering it.

Mason said...

Philip,

Thanks for the response. I really enjoy your blog, and we support you. This site is a wonderful blessing.

I would really love to hear about you sometime; maybe you could put up your testimony.

Blessings,
Mason

Anonymous said...

I see that all it takes is one comment to get people to thinking and I must say Paul Washer is one of my favorite preachers. However lets go to a college campus and have him preach his heart out and when a sincere student has a Question and the responce from you guys would be more or less "You don't need any historical evidence for christianity or gospel tracs just shut up and believe." You then would lose about 95% of the hearers attention. Or if you have an intelligent answer for the students Question then you do two things 1. His conscience is working on him and 2. His inteliect is working on him also. God may or may not save him but he will walk away thinking about the things of God.

Mason said...

Anonymous,

Thanks for your thoughts. You do not understand our position. None of us, including Paul, would respond in the manner you stated. We do go to college campuses, use tracts, and give historical evidences for Christianity within the framework of epistemological certainty.

Blessings,
Mason