Tuesday, January 27, 2009

Did Jesus Establish the Kingdom at His First Coming?

8 comments:

Robert said...

Please read the following text, in their contexts and tell me whether the kingdom mentioned is a spiritual one or a future literal one, thank you.

Mat 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

Jas 2:5 Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him?

2Th 1:5 This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering

1Th 2:12 we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you to walk in a manner worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.

1Co 15:50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Is this really talking of a literal Kingdom? sometime in the future in fact thousands of years in the future? are these verses not in the present tense?

Act 14:22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him."
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

was Jesus really talking to this great teacher about a kingdom thousands of years in the future?

The Kingdom clearly came with Jesus and everyone who is born again has entered that kingdom, the kingdom is not yet complete but will be at his second coming.

Philip@ReformedVoices said...

Hi Robert,

I see a future kingdom in all of those verses.

There is mention of 'seeking', 'promise of', 'worthy of', 'cannot inherit', 'through many tribulation we must enter'.

I would rather focus on what is said in the clip because it comes from a larger message in which Jim looks at Paul's talk concerning the kingdom.

It is message 093 - Answering Hoekema pt.1 from the Eschatology study, found in the archive section of salvationbygrace.org.

-Philip

Philip@ReformedVoices said...

Revelation 11:15
[ The Seventh Trumpet ] The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever."

Robert said...

Are you serious? You are willing to wrest those scriptures out of their historical context, and the plain meaning of what they meant to the people who heard them just to defend your position. e.g. 2th 1:5 This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering.

for which you are are suffering

1Th 2:12 we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you to walk in a manner worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.

who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.
present tense

brother we must bow to scripture not bend scripture and twist it to suit our own schemes!

Philip@ReformedVoices said...

When Jesus taught His disciples to pray, why would He teach them to pray- "your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven..." if the kingdom had already come?

In all of those passages you cited, I see a striving towards, and a promise of something that is future. You do not strive towards, look forward to, or(future)inherit something that has already occurred do you? I see them all as an anticipation and a qualification for a future occurrence.

-Philip

Guy said...

I agree that the Kingdom is future. The risen LORD (Acts 1:3)spent 40 days talking to the disciples concerning those things of the Kingdom of God. They asked Jesus just before the clouds received Him, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"

What need is there to ask this if the Kingdom already existed in some form? ( be it literally or spiritually)

Moreover, why didn't Jesus answer the disciples by saying the Kingdom already is? Instead He said, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority"

Philip@ReformedVoices said...

Good points Guy.

Daniel said...

Matt. 12: 28-29. Does not Jesus here say that Satan is bound (in some sense) and that the Kingdom of God has come? Not sure how one gets around this. Please note that I am not saying the Kingdom has been consumated--only that it HAS come (and will continue into eternity).