Sunday, February 1, 2009

Poll Discussion

The poll results are showing a near even disagreement of theology on whether God wanted sin to enter into the world or not. Was this a trick question due to the nature of the different wills that God has?

Do you have an opinion on the subject that you would like to share? Post it here.


Brad Jones said...

The question being a trick was actually the first thing I thought when I saw the question. The answer is "yes and no". God did not delight in sending sin into the world or allowing it to come to pass. However, God did want sin to come into the world so that His triune self would display their glory with the covenant of redemption.

There is much philosophy from Aristotle and Plato that has been adopted into Christianity regarding these types of issues, which makes talking about some issues surrounding this topic a difficult task, as it is best to be silent where Scripture is silent.

In an essence, being that God was under no necessity to create anything at all and is perfectly happy within Himself, is sovereign over all things, and ordains whatsoever comes to pass, it is clear that God would not be unaware of what would happen from Him creating and He would not act for an end He does not have, namely, His glory.

Ultimately, God did want sin to come into the world. He wanted sin to come into the world not for the sake of sin itself but for the larger purpose of bringing Himself glory. Because of this, we should hate sin but love Redemption, as redemption was the chief end of why sin was brought into the world in His plan to bring Himself glory.

Joelseph said...

I voted yes.

"Want" is a tricky word. I want to make sure I clarify that this does not mean God likes sin. That's usually the idea people get when they hear the word "want." A father does not LIKE spanking his child, but the father WANTS to spank the child because he knows that it's for the child's ultimate good.

God can ordain something that He doesn't like for the purpose of bringing about more glory for Himself. Sin presents a universe in which God can show us His ultimate display of love (Romans 5:8).

Also, this does not mean that God NEEDS sin and evil. It's not that God needs these things. It's that WE need them in order to understand God's holiness. We wouldn't understand what holiness meant without first having an understanding of what unholiness is.

There probably aren't many open theists that read this blog, so I assume most people here are going to affirm God's exhaustive foreknowledge of all future events in time. Upon these grounds, I want to make this next point:

If God has perfect knowledge of all future events, then obviously He perfectly knew that Adam and Eve would sin, bringing the world into it's fallen state. Based on this, He could have chosen not to create them, or He could have created them differently.

But He didn't. He created them just the way He wanted to, knowing perfectly that they would curse themselves and the rest of humanity.

Seeing every future event of history, both good and evil, God "hit the Go button."

Michael Spotts: . said...

To "want" a thing to transpire does not necessarily express moral approval of all the details involved, or pleasure in negative aspects of that event. I may "want" my wife to have children, but that does not mean I take pleasure in the pain she would endure. Neither do I approve of any resultant sins she commits because of her labor, such as not trusting in the Lord throughout her ordeal. Nevertheless, I "want" all those negatives, in order to achieve the end - a child.

In light of God's sovereign decrees, the fact that something has happened expressed that God, in an ultimate sense, wanted it to occur.

I voted "yes."

Josh Gunter said...

You have to say...yes. But then it is as if we (as yes voters) feel as though we need to get God of the hook. Listen, God is not held accountible to "man's" wisdom or our measure of morality. God defines what is right and wrong, we are held to God's standard, God is not held to our standard.